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Full Preterism vs. Idealism
By Nathan DuBois
Nate 4
One Nation
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Full Preterism - The view that all Bible prophecy was fulfilled
by the year 70
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Consistent Cessationism - Determining what things (such as
speaking in tongues) ceased in AD70
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Idealism (Pret) -
The view that the substance of prophetic fulfillment is found "in
Christ" not "in history"
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Reformed Soteriology - Doctrines of salvation commonly called
"Calvinism" (TULIP)
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Universalism
(Pret) - Because the devil, death, sin and law were destroyed in
AD70, there is no more separation between any person and God.
Faith has been turned to sight.
Original Location:
Full Preterism vs. Idealism, Part III
Part 3:
Full Preterism's "New" Gospel
So that the points to the "Full Preterism vs. Idealism" discussion do not
get side tracked, I want to say that this is not a debate about
Universalists, Universalism, coined phrases, or peoples' character. This
study is a direct attempt to answer the questions I was personally asked
concerning the difference between Full Preterism and Idealism, and to show
why I believe Full Preterism falls short of the mark. The fact that I am
discussing that Full Preterism, in its logical conclusions, leads to
Universalism is why I wrote Part 2. The logic used to describe the
irrelevance of death and the devil for all, yet still keeping condemnation
going for anyone not in Christ by creating a "new death" and "new law" which
men break, is faulty and lacking.
In doing so, Full Preterism creates a "new condemnation." Putting the truth
of these spiritual facts into time lines produces a logical beginning and
end to these facts. In Adam all died, and now that AD 70 has occurred, all
men are no longer in Adam. That condemnation has been put away. Now they are
just simply outside the Covenant and "naked." Here is some language used by
Michael Bennett, a friend of mine who is a Full Preterist, to describe why
men are still condemned even after the condemnation of Adam was put away.
"There is a
difference between the garden and the New Jerusalem...The garden
they were naked and no knowledge of good and evil. Ate and had
knowledge, and got the boot. Could not partake in tree. Now naked people
(those without a covenant / and know good and evil it has all been
revealed) can clothe themselves (with Christ) and come into the city to
partake in the tree that allows you to "live forever."
This idea of a difference between the garden and the New Jerusalem is one
part of the problem. However, this explanation falls in perfect logic with
what I had posted from Sam Frost in Part 2.
"If the death is still around, then so is your
condemnation. With the destruction of the Death, the condemnation in
Adam was effectively removed. Dennis asks how can this be for the
believer, but not for the wicked. This
is answered by replacing the First Death with a new heavens and new
earth Death, the Second one."
The logic of this Full Preterist thinking creates a new version of
condemnation NEVER ONCE addressed in scripture by Christ, the Apostles, or
anyone else for that matter. The reason this Part 3 is called a "...New
Gospel" is because they have created new
scenarios that do not come from scripture, but from their own logical
conclusions of what they believe their time line driven theology leads to.
They say the first death was brought on by Adam, and the second death
was brought on by Christ! People are released from the first condemnation of
Adam, only to be innocently condemned to eternal torment -- not because they
are guilty of sin under Adam, but because they are born outside of the New
Covenant.
As a friend has put it: "'I came not to condemn the world' -
and then He signs a bill making a new law of
condemnation.'"
The language has also been used by calling the law that
now condemns men
(since the law of Moses has been put away) the "law of Christ." This assumes
Christ came to enact a law not previously enacted before. Full Preterism
uses this to describe the commandments which men break today. By this the
"new heavens and new earth Death" becomes enacted as well. Here is another
Full Preterist explanation of this type of logic to explain the condemnation
of today.
"People didn't transgress Adam's law yet still guilty
in him...Death reigned from Adam to Moses even though sin was not held
in account. Yet Sodom was destroyed...Even
if none of these apply today, is there something called the 'law of
Christ.'"
Once again, making a difference between Adam's law and
the law of Christ creates a problem. A claim was made that they are seeing
the whole story, so their conclusions are valid. However, they are inventing
a new story because the old one passed away and became irrelevant. The Full
Preterist focus on time line driven theology -- and not Christ revealing
theology -- places dates as to when old sin and new sin started and stopped.
Old condemnation and old laws stopped and new condemnation and new laws
begin. This is only logical when looking at things strictly chronologically.
When looking at things as all pointing to Christ and all being a part of the
same story that ends in eternal life for those in Christ, and condemnation
for those still in Adam, the focus becomes so much more clear, and the need
to create new scenarios by which men are condemned is simply silliness, and
maybe worse.
So to get to the point of why a "new heavens and new earth death" -- or a
new reason being outside of the old Adam -- is NOT needed for mankind to be
condemned, is because nothing that occurred in AD 70 is new at all. This is
where we get to the explanation of what Idealism truly is vs. the typical
Full Preterist interpretation. This is also where I jumble together my other
points of logic that are missing from the Full Preterist reasoning. It is
the lack of these understandings that lead the Full Preterist system to
invent new doctrines of sin, law, and death in today's world.
4. God’s attributes come into play for
everything. God does not change and His character does not change. Just
because God acted in time, those actions did not benefit, make different,
cause change to, or halt His ways. He is the same today as He was in
Genesis.
The law of Moses was a shadow of the true law. It represented the real law
which is Christ. The Mosaic law was a revelatory instrument used by
God to show mankind His holiness and our unworthiness. It pointed not only
to our need for Christ, but was the tool by which mankind saw Christ
revealed incarnate, as He fulfilled its external works.
The law was made by Christ:
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John 1:1 In the
beginning was the Word; and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 All things were created
through Him, and apart from Him not one thing was created that has been
created.
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Hebrews 1:10 And: In
the beginning, Lord, You established the earth, and the heavens are the
works of Your hands; 11 they will perish, but You remain. They
will all wear out like clothing; 12 You will roll them up like a cloak,
and they will be changed like a robe. But You are the same, and Your
years will never end.
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Matthew 24:34 I assure you: This generation will
certainly not pass away until all these things take place. 35 Heaven and
earth will pass away, but My words will
never pass away.
Christ's words did not replace the law, they were the fullness of it. The
shadow was that which Moses received on Sinai, but the reality is that the
fullness of the law was found only in Christ. His commandments to love God
and your neighbor are not new, they are the same. So the only way to fulfill
the law, whether it be the law of Moses or the law of Christ (they are the
same), is to be in Christ.
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Matthew 22:36 "Teacher, which commandment in the law
is the greatest?" 37 He said to him, "You
shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul,
and with all your mind. 38 This is the greatest and most
important commandment. 39 The second is like it:
You shall love your neighbor as
yourself. 40 All the Law and the Prophets depend on these two
commandments."
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Galatians 5:13 For you are called to freedom,
brothers; only don't use this freedom as an opportunity for the flesh,
but serve one another through love. 14
For the entire law is fulfilled in one statement: You shall love your
neighbor as yourself.
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Galatians 6:2 Carry
one another's burdens; in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.
These laws are one and the same. A "shadow" assumes
something is casting the shadow. Removing the shadow, or better yet,
shedding full light on the thing which casts it, does not change what it
truly is, it reveals it. A "copy" assumes there is something to be copied.
The thing which is copied is not changed or done away with because the copy
of it is removed, it is either hidden away without even a copy to interpret
it, or the source is revealed in it's fullness. In this case the source --
which is Christ -- is revealed by those who are transformed by the Spirit.
Paul speaks of the ministry of the law as a veil, and he gives the one way
by which the veil is removed.
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2 Corinthians 3:13 not like Moses, who used to put a
veil over his face so that the sons of Israel could not look at the end
of what was fading away. 14 But their
minds were closed. For to this day, at the reading of the old covenant,
the same veil remains; it is not lifted, because it is set aside only in
Christ. 15 However, to this day, whenever Moses is read, a veil
lies over their hearts, 16 but whenever
a person turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. 17 Now the Lord
is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18
We all, with unveiled faces, are reflecting the glory of the Lord and
are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory; this is
from the Lord who is the Spirit.
Being "in Christ" removes the veil, it removes that which
blocks us from seeing the realities that the shadow interpreted. When it is
removed by the Spirit we receive freedom. Many people will claim that Full
Preterism believes this anyway. As I have shown by the comments posted
earlier, this is simply not the case. Full Preterists claim that AD 70,
which is when the law of Moses was removed, removed the veil. But the law of
Moses is just a temporal shadow.
So if the law was a shadow on this earth that represented Gods holiness, and
with mans inability to comprehend and live up to God's holiness, it was a
hinderance:
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John 12:37 Even though He had performed so many signs
in their presence, they did not believe
in Him. 38 But this was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the
prophet, who said: Lord, who has believed our message? And to whom has
the arm of the Lord been revealed? 39 This is why they were unable to
believe, because Isaiah also said: 40 He
has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so that they would not
see with their eyes or understand with their hearts, and be converted,
and I would heal them.
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1 Corinthians 2:7 On the contrary, we speak God's
hidden wisdom in a mystery, which God predestined before the ages for
our glory. 8 None of the rulers of this
age knew it, for if they had known it, they would not have crucified the
Lord of glory. 9 But as it is written: What no eye has seen and
no ear has heard, and what has never come into a man's heart, is what
God has prepared for those who love Him. 10 Now God has revealed them to
us by the Spirit, for the Spirit searches everything, even the deep
things of God.... 13 We also speak these things, not in words taught by
human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual
things to spiritual people. 14 But the
natural man does not welcome what comes from God's Spirit, because it is
foolishness to him; he is not able to know it since it is evaluated
spiritually. 15 The spiritual person, however, can evaluate
everything, yet he himself cannot be evaluated by anyone. 16 For:
who has known the Lord's mind, that he
may instruct Him? But we have the mind of Christ.
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2 Corinthians 4:4 Regarding them: the god of this age
has blinded the minds of the unbelievers so they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who
is the image of God.
So if the shadow law caused a veil to be on men when the law is read, it can
be safely said that the law of Christ is also blinding to those who do not
have the Spirit. It is confusing and foolishness.
So what kept men from God? What stood in the way of God and man? The law of
Moses? By no means. If so Paul would have taught that it was in the
destruction of Judaism that would remove the veil. Instead Paul said it was
the Spirit that removes the veil. Removing the physical symbols of Judaism
does not change the heart of Judaizers. It only reveals the defeat that
their zealousness of the law brings.
Now again we go back to Romans. Whether before or after AD 70, whether with
the physical law of Moses standing on the Mount or without, the Spirit is
what frees men to turn to Christ, and remove the veil.
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Romans 2:28 For a person is not a Jew who is one
outwardly, and true circumcision is not something visible in the flesh.
29 On the contrary, a person is a Jew
who is one inwardly, and circumcision is of the heart--by the Spirit,
not the letter. His praise is not from men but from God.
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Romans 8:1 Therefore, no condemnation now exists for
those in Christ Jesus, 2 because the
Spirit's law of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of
sin and of death.
Full Preterism must either submit to the idea that the law is still in
existence for everyone who is not in Christ, or submit to Universalist
interpretations. The law of Christ is the reality of the shadow law of
Moses. Removing the law of Moses, a copy, a shadow, does not remove the
veil. Only the Spirit removes the veil. This is still ongoing because the
law of Christ (the thing the law of Moses stood for, represented) is still
ongoing.
It was THIS VERY SAME LAW that Adam broke in the garden. Even before the law
of Moses existed on earth, there was a veil keeping men away from God
because mankind (represented through the person Adam) broke the eternal law.
Eating the apple was breaking the same eternal law that taking "the name of
the Lord your God in vain" does. It is the breaking of this very same
eternal law that condemns mankind today. Only in Christ is this condemnation
removed. And being in Christ can only be individually experienced.
Being in Christ is not a corporate event, it is a personal event. Therefore,
if AD 70 represented this change, because
it only removed the
representative of the true, then the true fulfillment is personally
experienced each time someone enters into Christ. This is NOT application.
AD 70, the removal of
the fake/ copy, did not make true the reality, it only represents it.
Reveals it.
The same is true for the garden of Eden scenario that was mentioned by Mike.
Yes, the garden IS the same as the New Jerusalem in that it was a copy for
it. The garden was physical, the physical is not the true. So what did the
garden represent? The garden was the shadow, the physical representation of
mankind dwelling with God. However, mankind can only dwell with God in
Spirit and in truth. It was due to the breaking of the law that Adam was
expelled and no longer able to enter. Covenant with God absent from sin.
This is the same as the New Jerusalem, only with unveiled eyes we see that
the spiritual reality of the New Jerusalem is what Eden was all about in the
first place. Eden, Canaan, Old Jerusalem. All pointing to the New Jerusalem.
Not different in character, just one a copy of the other. The law of Moses
did not have a different character form the law of Christ, it was just a
temporal representative, and therefore not sufficient. That is why Paul
could call it "holy" and a "curse" at the same time. So the bringing in of
the saints into the New Jerusalem is restoration into the true Eden.
This is why Full Preterism is a "new gospel." It dishonors the eternal
standing of the law and makes two different laws and two different
condemnations. It dishonors the eternal standing of the covenant, failing to
see that the one enacted on earth was only a copy of the true one made with
Adam. The condemnation that came through Adam came from sin. Sin repelled
Adam from the covenant, Christ restores it for each person that enters Him.
Sin is the same disease today that it was for Adam, reaping the same
condemnation and having the same cure. Time lines do not do the truth of the
Gospel justice, and it eliminates the personal aspect of the fullness in
Christ.
The gospel does just fine with it's own telling. It does not need me
scrubbing through scripture to see what was done away with and what is left
so that I can reach conclusions, none of which found in scripture, to
explain it.
God Bless
Nate
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THEOLOGICAL IDEALISM:
ARTICLES
Idealism and Double Fulfillment
BOOKS
A fourth course of practical sermons
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Joseph and His Brethren - Which Things Are An
Allegory |
Shadow and the Substance
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Discipline and Other Sermons
CLASSES
Historical
| Modern
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Incidental
DEVOTEES
Saint
Bonaventure
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